It(the situation with J's family) doesn't have to affect me in a way that makes me hold onto anger/rejection/insecurities. But I still feel and writing for me is cathartic -once its out in writing I don't have to waste my time thinking about it anymore. Instead of answering Josh's sisters' comments in my head (or to her where she'll again fail to comprehend anything I'm saying), I'm gonna do it here.
The comments here and in my head are a little more snippy than I like to be. I even thought about not posting this blog. But I figure she's obviously been talking trash about me for years-not that I need to justify it but it does make it easier for me to talk about how I really feel to my friends (who make up my blog readers). My brand of happiness doesn't mean I still don't feel the "bad" feelings. It means that I acknowledge those feelings and let them go-I'm not going to suddenly burst out in anger and irrationality in a few years (like she is doing) from holding all the pissy feeling inside.
This email was sent in response to the FB attacks where she asks Josh if his times of misery were when he decided to not tell his family we got married, accused us of making a child (adeline) lie about it, and twists my comment about a wedding day potentially being a miserable day for me into me saying I was miserable and married Josh as punishment to myself and how crappy that was. BTW, Josh's cool comment about misery was "misery is a self imposed prison I used to lock myself up in all the time. Now that I realize it, I just laugh when I catch myself trying to do it. I'm the only person who get to decide how I feel. How great is that?"
Here's the email exchanges-the ones she sent to Josh are even more harsh and ridiculous and I'll add a few of those comments afterward:
I wrote her:
I didn't say I was a miserable person back then. But I did let things affect me more then they should have and I let myself be miserable/angry/sad. Due to my own insecurities a wedding would have been a miserable experience.
I wish I'd known your feeling were hurt earlier and I would have been glad to share my views on weddings/marriage-as I'm sure Josh would have too but I can't speak completely for him. I wrote a blog about my views on the subject-it was written in 2007 so the views have expanded a bit, but they are generally the same. A cut/pasted copy of that entry is near the bottom. I don't expect you to agree with my views but realize it would have been MY wedding for me (and josh) and its just not how we chose to celebrate our love and commitment. Yes, we did not handle telling people in a way that was best for everyone but we didn't know how-it snowballed unfortunately but I assumed that by now it was a forgotten issue and no one cared anymore. We never asked Adeline to lie-but we did ask her to keep it secret til we could figure out how to tell people and we just never really figured out how to do that.
One thing I want you to understand is that both Josh and I have gone through a lot of growth in our personal lives and how we see the world/God/ourselves/ other people. That doesn't make us better than other people but it makes us better than we were. More importantly it makes us happier. We've been able to grow stronger together which is more than many so-called committed couples can say. It might be easy for you or anyone to see how we've behaved in the past and hold on to whatever anger/hurt its caused you. I don't deny that I've not always had the best way of talking to people-and due to my flat tone people have misinterpreted a lot that I have said and the true feeling behind it. People who really know me and my thoughts can look past that but I imagine its harder for you since we've had very few conversations that help us get to know each other better. But I will honestly, and without anger, address any issues you have with me (issues you have with Josh will have to be directed to him). I don't have issues with you-I've been angry and annoyed with you in the past but I've realized that those feelings came from within me and how I expected you to be. I know that a lot of those time I was annoyed with you was because I was reacting to whatever stresses you were letting show/or I was reacting due to my own stresses. But I believe that you are more rounded than the few perceptions I've had of you in the past.
I too am not who I was even a week ago. I'm constantly learning to forgive myself. I'm learning to be at peace with however people want to live. My goal is to have no expectations of how others should act/be/believe/etc. I still work through issues with myself. I've pretty much rid myself of sarcasm (unless it comes from a place of sillyness instead of anger). While I let myself have anger and hurt (and other so-called negative emotions), I'm trying to see where it truely comes from and let it pass because most the time it does just come from inside me. This is where I am-its not the path for everyone-its not even the exact path of Josh. And I enjoy my path. I enjoy learning of the path others are on and realizing it doesn't have to be where I am or that we even have to understand each other. I've enjoyed sharing it with you and whoever wants to hear/read it. And if you don't want to hear/read it let me know and I won't share it directly with you (by the way I asked Justin to tell me if he didn't want to get to know each other more and he basically said he didn't-that doesn't make me angry or hurt-it is what it is and I am fine with that. I still love him and can appreciate all the things I do know about him-and I totally believe that he is all the things that Liz says she sees in him).
here's the blog entry from 2007-like I said it was my view then but most of it holds true but I could probably expand-Its still a good part of the reasons we chose not to have a wedding...
---First off let me start off by saying what a good time we had in Mitchell June 1-3. I'm really learning to put myself in a happy place-to not feel defensive around others who don't believe as I do, to just allow people to be who they are and enjoy them for it, and to feel comfortable in my own body even if it doesn't yet look like I want it to look. And Josh is doing likewise.
Josh's cousin on his mom's side got married. His mom has 13 brothers and sisters so a lot of family was there. I enjoyed them all with my rediscovered skills as mentioned above.
The wedding was very traditional, a short chatholic service and typical reception afterward. I enjoyed that as well despite my previous aversion to weddings-especially the traditional kind.
When is it our turn?
The question we feared-and didn't quite have an answer for. But now I do. The short version-Josh and I very much have a marriage and have had one since we committed to living together 4 and 1/2 years ago. However we are not intersted in having a wedding to prove or celebrate that committment. We'd rather put our energy into the actual partnership.
There have been moments with Josh that I've mentally planned the details of a wedding. And when Eric and I planned ours I wrote it in a journal-we eventually got married (and divorced) in a no hassles courthouse sort of way. Both plans for weddings were not traditonal. With niether of my partners did we think it necessary to put so much energy into a moment. We didn't want that to be the best day of our lives with everything afterward (except maybe having children) to pale in comparison. Weddings seem to cause stress and drama for everyone involved and even some attending-I find that unnecessary. In fact the only joy I find in the possiblity of having a wedding is so that we can plan it the way we want it, totally atypical, completely about us and our uniqueness, and so that we can have a really fun entertaining party (with Dick Burns as our band of course). Some members of our families might prefer us to have a wedding-to do what we're supposed to do-despite that what we're supposed to do is based on beliefs that neither of us hold true. Hopefully friends and family will open their eyes to the fact that Josh and I totally dig each other-we're committed-we have a marriage-we enjoy our lives and don't feel a wedding will enhance it in any way or complete us.
We're not alone in our decision. More and more people are realizing that weddings and/or a marriage certificate aren't for them. Some couples deny the legal document because that legal document would take away benefits that they need-such as the case with disability. Some see it as shame when so many committed partners are denied that basic right. Some see a wedding as a waste of time, a waste of money, or a waste of energy. Some feel that by having the labels of husband and wife takes away the feeling of self and forces them and others to expect behavior that go against their personality. Ideally the government and the people would realize that a wedding nor a legal document make a marriage-that family isn't always one man and one woman and some children related by dna.
With that said-I will enjoy weddings-I do honor anyone who decides to do what's best for them wether that be to remain single or to partner with one or more persons throughout their life-even the poly's- and I honor how they choose to celebrate or not celebrate their committments. ---
And her email back-here I've include the responses I had in my head but decided were useless to send back to her because she really must not comprehend what I'm saying. Either that or she's not reading my wordy messages because I've clearly already answered her comments. Like I said they are a little more snippy and its not really how I choose to communicate anymore-however sarcasm and snippiness does cross my mind. I've learned that those kind of responses don't really get anyone anywhere in resolving the issues but it does help me to release it so that I can focus on the real important stuff in my life. If I did respond to her personally that way it'd just lead to more arguments. Plus, we don't see eye to eye and she's not as willing as she says she is to listen. My responses begin with an >
J-
It wasn't the wedding that i'm sad about. It's the fact that you were married and felt the need to keep it a secret.
me-
uh, didn't I answer that in my blog? and my email. We already considered ourselves married. The day we got the certificate was nothing more than an errand to do the paperwork required to get cheaper insurance and tax breaks. I realize we have a different view on when a marriage officially starts but hey, I'm not asking You to consider Yourself married before a wedding day. I think that if you truely cared about the happiness of your brother you'd just be happy that he's happy and with someone he can be happy with.
J-
Quite frankly you continuely seem to take away some of the simple joys that use to make josh happy.
me-
WTF-can she really not see how happy he is! What exactly did I take away from him! I've always let him be exactly how he wants to be-I don't dress him, make him change his hair, make him give up beer or nicotine, I haven't initiated his weird diets. And maybe some of the joys HE's given up have simply been replaced by new joys. But I don't really get what joys I've supposedly taken away-uh, making out with random girls after a night of drinking-k, maybe I made him give that one up.
J-
As much as you may not appreciate him we are his family and not being there to support your loved one in telling his family something you know he hates to hide from us is hard for me to understand.
me-
Where does she even get the idea that I don't appreciate him? Its not from him. My friends can clearly see I appreciate him-I never ever talk bad about him to anyone because I don't have anything bad to say about him. And where does she get the idea that I made him not tell and that he hates to hide it? Of course she wouldn't understand it because its a falshood totally pulled out of her head. We both never thought it a great time to tell anyone because for us it was a non-issue-it was not something exciting to announce. It wasn't even that secret, some people knew, mostly because they asked or just because it came up in conversation.
j-
There are many examples of you pulling him away from us and despite the fact you say you've changed I have a hard time believing that. Part of my work is finding the symptoms the patient is willing to tell us. I can tell you really are trying but it's still there.
me-
So give me these many examples-I bet I can disprove them. And if anything I've encouraged him (and us) to do lots of things with his family and I've enjoyed them for the most part.
And its not so much that I've changed. I didn't consider myself bad and now I'm all good. I'm human and I grow with my experiences. I make mistakes and learn from them. And I'm not TRYING to be different as if its some chore-it just comes along with that growth and being happy at the core. And I'm not all that different-just a happier version of myself.
j-
It showed when you guys were back before justin left. The last night siblings could be together for over a year and when someone asked josh if he was coming you didn't even let him answer and said he couldn't. If something happens to Justin god for bid you took away those moments we could have had together for whatever your reasons were. I am sure you have reasons for your choices and honestly I am sure I wouldn't understand. I am always willing to listen but my thought process is much different from yours just because our lives took us in different paths and different experiences.
me-
Again, she doesn't know what she's talking about. (and I did tell her most this) When asked if we were going out I said I wasn't-1) because ZoraJane isn't ready to be left with anyone else and 2) because I'm pregnant and the bar is too smokey. I never ever answered for Josh. In fact I kept asking him if he was sure he didn't want to go out with his family especially since it was his last night out with Justin for awhile. Josh didn't want to go out for reasons that had nothing to do with me. He was tired. And he was preparing his body to go the meditation retreat a few days later, which meant no alcohol or smoking. We'd all been hanging out at the house-a night out drinking is not the only way to bond.
j-
I will also always have a hard time finding the good in you because from the beginning it was a rollercoaster....I was the first one you really had a chance to get to know and you wouldn't even talk to sometimes when I was at the house while I went to college out there. I was lucky to have a wonderful man in my life for that point in my life. He was family to me because I didn't feel comfortable around my own brother because of how you treated me.
me-
Dude, I've already admitted I'm pretty shy and not much of a talker (until we can find something in common or unless the other person is really great at asking questions-and we've never had much in common and neither of us have been good at asking questions). If I don't talk to someone it doesn't mean I am a big bad bitch. Other than the shyness thing, I might've simply just been in my own head with my own thoughts/stresses/fears/proccupations. I wouldn't have let her come to the house, do her laundry here, cook for her, etc if I didn't enjoy having her up.
Here's the email that I did send back:
That's cool. I've never really felt totally accepted by you but I always thought we got along and that it was probably my own anxiety-glad to know that it wasn't ALL in my head-lol. I do have issues with social anxiety so my awkwardness and inability to ask questions and spark conversations hasn't ever really had anything to do with you or your family. Also my defensiveness was my own insecurities.
As far as taking Josh away-you'd have to ask him if that's how he perceives it and his reasons for spending as much time with your family as he did when he was single. Although part of that reason is that that is what happens when you have a committed relationship/become part of that other persons family/ and start making a family of you own.I know I've never denied visits from/with/to your family. In fact I've usually enjoyed them and looked forward to them. New Year is one the times I Iook forward to the most and not so that I can drink-but rather to hang out with family in a fun and celebration. I've never denied Josh the choice to go out either. Again I encourage it-as I did that last night in April. He chose to not go out for his own reasons-I did remind him of his reasons because they were pretty important to him and I also asked him if he was sure he didn't want to go out because it was the last time he'd get to go out while Justin was there. But you weren't with us for that part of our conversation so you wouldn't know that. I have at times been sad that Josh got to go out and I couldn't. Again not so I could drink. Rather I've felt like I missed on that family time and felt left out. I usually sulked about it because I do that when I'm sad, but I eventually got over it because I love the reasons I can't always go out (my kids/pregnancy) and I love that J comes home to me and shares his joy of the previous night.
I don't know what got you so riled up last time you were here-not that I knew you were until your message. I know that I was pretty inside my head because I was stressed about not feeling good, and anxious about having a baby early and not being close to my midwife, and listing the house-but I guess you wouldn't know that because I didn't share it with anyone and no one asked-and quite frankly if someone asks how I'm doing I try to say "great" because the majority of the time I do feel great and I want to keep a positive attitude.
I don't have the email she sent Josh but she basically implys (or maybe even says it straight out) that he is miserable because of me. That she herself is miserable around me and has to take pain meds just to be around me and will never love me. Oh, but the kids are great (despite their being unschooled into stupidity)
My response. To laugh-okay mine is more of a scoff because I rarely laugh out loud but Josh got so giggly about it one day that Adeline was getting annoyed at him for laughing out of nowhere. Really if I was still at a place of making myself miserable by letting what others think of me make me feel rejected/angry/sad/insecure than I might be super offended and worried. But its all so ridiculous. Josh and I joke that I must be some powerful voodoo witch to make her so ill. If I'm such a bad person, I don't see how I can have so many great friends, many of whom are different on so many levels, and some who even claim to be highly intuitive themselves(yet none of them are ill because of me). And since I spend nearly all my time with my kids you'd think they'd be little anger balls bouncing around with hate if I was so horrible. Either that or they'd be so far from their true selves because they'd be so preoccupied with trying to please me and gain just one little glimmer of my conditional love. See how odd the whole thing is?
She's not giving her brother very much credit for getting out of such a horrible situation-if it were in fact a horrible situation. Its not like he was ever obligated to be with me. And I don't manipulate him into doing anything he doesn't want to do. Josh and I may have had times were we had to work through issues, either within ourselves or as a couple, but its never been anything serious or intense enough to drive us apart. That's what committed couples do.
If it was such a horrible relationship:We wouldn't be together this long. We wouldn't have gotten so much pleasure out of our baby and I wouldn't be knocked up again so soon after having that baby. He wouldn't be actively looking for more ways to work from home. We wouldn't want to live in a cramped little bus and explore the world together as a family if we didn't enjoy each other.
Like I said-ridiculous.
Whew-now its out of my head. I can fill my mind with trivial things like songs from Yo Gabba Gabba and Dora the Explorer. I can get back to educating myself about sewing/knitting and other things I find interesting. I can write about shiny happy things and do some other journaling. I can be there for my friends and their dramas. I can work on being the domestic goddess I want to be. I can go take a walk with my kids. I can find better things to do with my time reserved for the internet. Right now J and are going to watch a little HBO.